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--- statutes:minutes:minutes20120619 [2012/06/18 10:13] – created krishna
+++ statutes:minutes:minutes20120619 [2013/07/21 19:15] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1
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-The working pad is at
+====== PPEU statutes working group meeting minutes ======
-https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-stt-protocol-20120619
+  Location:  mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de:64738
+  Channel:   International -> PPEU
+  Schedule:  19.06.2012   21:30 CEST
+  Minutes:   Everyone
+  Chairman:  Martina
+  Start:     21:40 CEST
+  End:       00:00 CEST
+  Next meet: In regular (new frequency)
+----
+===== Agenda =====
+  - Administration
+  - Architecture
+  - Vision
+  - Statutes
+  - Aarau / measurement scenarios
+  - Proposed draft statutes from Jack Allnutt
+  - Miscellanea
+----
+===== Administration =====
+== Participants: ==
+  - Klaas Mensaert klamens [at] gmail.com PP-BE
+  - Julia Reda julia.reda [at] junge-piraten.de PP-DE
+  - Krishna (Balaji Mohan) krishna [at] ppeu.net PP-DE
+  - Steffen Ortmann (@ortsman; Steffen_TH; steffen.ortmann [at] piraten-thueringen.de) PPI, PP-DE, left early
+  - Mattias Bjärnemalm mattias.bjarnemalm [at] europarl.europa.eu [[PPSE]]
+  - Jack Allnutt (j.allnutt [at] pirateparty.org.uk @M2Ys4U) PPUK (as individual)
+  - Stefan Thöni (stefan.thoeni [at] piratenpartei.ch) PP-CH
+  - [Anders] [@andersch_be; pp-eu [at] andersch.be][PP-DE]
+  - Martina Pöser (martina.poeser [at] bremen.piraten.de) PP-DE
+  - Stephen Ogden (Azrael, s.ogden [at] pirateparty.org.uk) PP-UK (as individual)
+  - Pascal Fouquet, PP-CH
+  - Muriel (muriel [at] pirata.cat) PPCAT
+== Elect Keeper of the minutes ==
+ Candidates:  Everyone
+== Elect chairman ==
+ Candidates: Krishna, Martina (both elected)
+== Approve last meeting's protocol ==
+ Protocol: http://wiki.ppeu.net/doku.php?id=statutes:minutes:minutes20120607
+ Comments (who): Approved
+== Approve today's agenda ==
+ Comments (who): Approved
+== Previous ToDos  ==
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Status ^
+| Architecture /  1.3. Individual membership| separate structural and tools discussion in separate pads| robotica | | plank |
+| Aarau| So, what happened there? | is separate agenda item | |golden eye patch |
+===== Architecture =====
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+| 1.1 Party-Only model|https://eu.piratenpad.de/party-only-model |Steffen, Exception, Jack A, Stephen O | | |
+| 1.2 Hybrid Model | https://eu.piratenpad.de/hybrid-membership-model | Steffen, Justus, crackpille, Abri, Phi95Bou, Exception, Polnetz, Marin, Torben | | |
+| | [[http://projects.piratenpartei.ch/dmsf_files/1580?download=|Download]] \\ [[https://eu.piratenpad.de/swiss-proposal|online]] | PP-CH| | |
+| 1.3. Individual membership (Permanent Assembly) | https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-individual-membership-model | Abri ((No 2 and No 3 might correspond (almost in German law regarding juridical bodies, isn't it) )),  robotica, dude, pakki | | |
+Members
+| 2.1 Which Parties for full membership ? ((influences, 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3)) | https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-parties | Marin, Exception, Steffen, Apophis, Exile | | (silver coin)|
+| 2.2. Additional Memberships (better: Option for additional memberships)  | https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-additional-membership | Marin, Steffen | | (plank)|
+| 4. Country of Legal Personality? ((May influence, how the party-structure can look at all)) | https://eu.piratenpad.de/place-to-found-ppeu | Sven, Marin | | (plank)|
+Brussels proposed as seat and legal jurisdiction (Mattias)
+| 5. Name of the Party | https://eu.piratenpad.de/name | Marin, Polnetz, dude | | |
+| 6. General Provisions | https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-general-provisions | Polnetz, Jack A, Luciana | | (plank)|
+| 7. Different Models of Organs/Institutions of PPEU | https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-organs | | | (plank)|
+===== Vision =====
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+| | | | | |
+| | | | | |
+===== Statutes =====
+https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-statutes-draft
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+| statutes topics| We will collect items in the list below that the later statutes may / should cover.| | | R |
+|Topics |Moved the collected topics with Aarau topics to  https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-statutes-draft| krishna |  |  |
+===== Aarau / Measurement scenarios  =====
+=== Aarau general feedback / report ===
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+|Minutes|http://piratenpad.de/p/pp-eu_pk12|julia| | |
+|Personal report|http://andersch.be/node/8 (german) | anders | | |
+|short report | | Julia | | |
+|Topics |PPEU either as association of individual parties + MEP, but without its own programme, or as actual party + MEP with own programme | julia | |  |
+=== Discussion ===
+In Aarau it was proposed to establish an automatic kill switch (AKS) to self destruct when EU election regulations change, and "at all costs". That seemed excessive to non-participants.
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+|AKS |Fear of to much bureaucracy. Pirates getting "comfortable" can be avoided by forcefully dissolving the PPEU (AKS).| julia | | |
+| | such an architecture without any individual participation may be hard to sell to pirates |luna | | |
+| |suggestive feedback from individual pirates at European level, not as binding programme decision | luna| | |
+| | in case of too much bureaucracy or abuse pirates are going to revolt anyway, no need for automation | krishna| | |
+| | Declaration of intent in the statutes to work towards individual membership and Pan-European elections. |  luna | | |
+| |actions for a scenario too far in the future with unknown circumstances should not be decided now | azrael | | |
+| |let "our children" decide then and there |krishna | | |
+| | rather have pirates unanimously undo the kill switch | julia | | |
+| | safety against too much bureaucracy/abuse | julia | | |
+| | what if the regulations are changed in a bad way (e.g. paneuro elections for already established parties - why kill our only chance by automation)? Shouldn't the reactions be decided then? | | | |
+| |have "them" follow us, not adjust to "them", \\ [remark: i.e. create GD not when the election system wants to, but we want to and are ready] | krishna | | |
+| | AKS is not the only way to solve the problem that it addresses. Not necessarily required at this stage. | | | R |
+| Voting systems| greens have weighted voting system according to their strengths in countries / MEPs |M2Ys4U | | | |
+| |suggestion: square root of total votes for the pirate party in the country / factor \\ example: PP-DE get's 10% of 40 mio votes -> 4 mio votes -> 2.000 / factor \\  example2: PP-LU get's 10% of 400 k votes -> 40k votes ->  200 / factor| | Anders | |
+| |The voting system should encourage the parties to receive good results in elections to minimize the influence of inactive parties. |mad | | |
+| |How to decide the vote is dependent on the tasks of the organisation. If the organisation is only coordinating, the one-party-one-vote-model and any other model would be unproblematic. |Krishna | | |
+| |How to decide the vote is dependent of what to vote about. If the organisation is only coordinating, the one-party-one-vote-model and any other model would be unproblematic. For other decisions some sort of weighting may be required. |krishna | | |
+| |fair, equal system or incentives for election results? | mab | | |
+| Founding & seat| national law may influence restrictions on statutes| Jerry (?), Luna, Sven(?)| |T |
+| |find outsider lawyer for consulting | | m2ys4u | |
+| | process: first outline the statutes, then check for suitable countries and check details |krishna | | |
+| | the first and next step is to decide about goals / vision | | | R |
+| Live meetings|financial support for foreign parties? Discuss via ML |ACT | | T|
+| |Election and PPEU can be dealt with seprately. No need for hastiness. |mab | | |
+| |High media effect would be best for a just-in-time founding before the elections | | | |
+| | meetings every two months, not sooner| | | R |
+| |no info about Strassbourg dates | krishna| | |
+| | skip the august meeting| | | R |
+| |Prague decl. approval postponed from last week's board meeting by the Swedish PP. After the Barcelona meeting there is no other board meeting before the national assembly of Swedish PP in November (only way would be to prepone the Sept. meeting. | mad | | |
+===== Proposed draft statutes from Jack Allnutt =====
+* [[http://piratenpad.de/p/PPEU-Statutes-Allnutt|Steve Allnutt's working pad / proposal]]  \\
+* ML was notified: http://lists.pp-international.net/private/pp-eu/2012-June/001293.html
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+|  | structural input from Krishna useful | Jack  |  |  |
+| | individual participation missing |? | | |
+| | maybe do not artificially limit ourselves to conditions made by others (e.g. EU competences). If we do that it is difficult to create change. | krishna| | |
+| | "good job", many bullets points useful, no major objections so far | | | |
+| |more than one statutes variant should be created to allow actual voting by the parties' bases|luna | | |
+===== Miscellanea =====
+^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Type ^
+| Schedule change in statutes group | Maybe if there are enough people in the statutes group we can decide to meet more often again ( not required for programme group). Ask Statutes group |ACT | | golden eye patch |
+| | no change| | |R |
+| Founding meeting |Inform the parties about new founding meeting dates (plus other meeting dates?). Before that check with Justus Römeth about final dates for the Strassbourgh meeting. | ACT | | golden eye patch |
+| |check for meeting option 1st/2nd September in Barcelona -> check with SE mad |muriel and krishna  | |T |
+----
+Type: I=Information (default), T=Todo, R=Resolution\\
+Status: plank=not started / late, silver coin=progressing in time, golden eye patch patch=done