====== PPEU.Statutes meeting minutes ====== Location: mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de:64738 Channel: International -> PPEU Schedule: XX.XX.2012 21:30 CEST Minutes: XX / Everyone Chairman: XX Start: 21:41 CEST End: 22:56 CEST Approved: Pending [[ https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-stt-protocol-20120814 | This meet ]] [[ https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-stt-protocol-20120821 | Next meet ]] ---- ===== Agenda ===== - Administration - Architecture - Vision - Statutes - consensus vs. transversal majorities - longer election period with easy vote of no-confidence - Your topic - Miscellanea ===== Administration ===== == Participants: == - [[ robotica@robotica.it | Daniele Monteleone ]] (PP-IT) - [[ stefan.thoeni@piratenpartei.ch | Stefan Thöni ]] (PP-CH) - [[ Anders| Andreas Bernard]] (PP-DE) - [[ muriel@pirata.cat | Muriel ]] (PP-CAT) - [[ patrick.schiffer@piratenpartei-nrw.de | pakki ]] (PP-DE) - [[ jens.stomber@gmx.de | ZombB ]] (PP-DE) - [[ kai.goedde@piratenpartei-nrw.de | Kai Gödde ]] (PP-DE) == Elect Keeper of the minutes == Candidates: everyone == Elect chairman == Candidates: Krishna == Approve last meeting's protocol == [[ http://wiki.ppeu.net/doku.php?id=statutes:minutes:minutes20120809 | Minutes ]] \\ Comments (who): Approved == Approve today's agenda == Comments (who): approved == Previous ToDos == ^ Topic ^ What ^ Who ^ When ^ Status ^ | Architecture / 1.3. Individual membership| separate structural and tools discussion in separate pads| robotica | | silver coin | -> instead we will do all this by using the Euroliquid support and stuff |Hybrid model| Another hybrid model by Alexander Spieß / Kai Gödde|Kai|09.08.2012|silver coin| ===== Architecture ===== === 1. Structure === == 1.2 Hybrid Model == |Where|https://eu.piratenpad.de/hybrid-membership-model| |Who|Steffen, Justus, crackpille, Abri, Phi95Bou, Exception, Polnetz, Marin, Torben| === Euroliquid model (Bi-Chamber Permanent Assembly) === http://wiki.ppeu.net/doku.php?id=euroliquid \\ Euroliquid model is the upgrade of individual membership model that take into consideration the party based model, assigning to each party a number of tokens (votes) on the basis of the weight that the party will have in PP-EU. Discussion about the present & future role / status of euroliquid: == Robotica:== * the structure of euroliquid will provide and define the amount of people participating (delegation-system) * all proposals shall be in english language * everything will be build in the future (some months, a year) * at the moment it's only a basis model, abstract, a formular * 90% of pirates speaks english as second language * in our liquidfeedback system we can take decisions in 36hrs if we need * the resources will be set up gradually * Robotica invites warmly to take into consideration the Weights calculation of Euroliquid for the other models. * LqFb can be learned in 2 hours, anyway the tool will be used mostly by who is able to use it, the others just can delegate their trusty. == pakki: == * the whole liquid thing is not discussed alre ady and too early to implement. the discussion on the euroliquid mailing list has started since 2 weeks and there are 26 posts altogether at the moment. == Anders: == * it will be difficult to find enough people, who will use the euroliquid at this early stage * we need an overhead of people (translating etc.) to provide a functioning system * we can not do this at the moment, there is nothing to win atm. * lqfb is not even established/agreed upon in whole Germany == Krishna: == * we need a system, which works on a base which is accepted and practise multilingual base decision * we need an individual model * a delegation system is not necessary because we already have it in europe * the idea of liquid feedback is, that every vote counts the same, and this must on long term be guaranteed in the euroliquid, too == Exception: == * we can not build a mirror of the european parliament * time is an important factor, that is reaction time == Muriel: == * I think it's nice to promote participation of everyone but it takes time to train people to do it, we will have to do it progressively * we need to communicate & make trainings with people to give them the possibility to participate in the euroliquid, the language barriers would be a problem but also the time availability of the participants. * why is it so useful in the case of a parties chamber? * the time is important (resources?) * most parties don't have enough people at this stage to really make an european pirate parliament clone (is the effort worth it for just a bunch of people?) * I wouldn't make it mandatory for the parties to use it, maybe they already have a mechanism * if we use this we need a board (and personally I would prefer not to have a powerful board) * it's too soon for now. we can start building a platform for all european pirates to discuss items (board/forum/mailing lists) == ZombB: == * there are two aspects mixed up: membership in the local pirate party and the membership in the european liquid feedback * only discussion is possible, no decisions ===== Statutes ===== === consensus vs. transversal majorities === * if one disagrees to a topic, it's difficult to implement it in the program/statutes of the "PPEU" * we have to search for consensus points (e.g. transparency of government, privacy...) * if there is a majority in ratification in every pirate party there is also an overall majority of countries. == Krishna: == * At the high level it is easy to get agreements and consensus. Everyone agrees to "more transparency". But if we start detailing what that means, a consensus becomes more and more unlikely. At a detailed level we already have conflicting ideas about core pirate topics. * A consensus is a 100% agreement, which is very unlikely with transversal majorities. If you compute the majority opinion of each PP first and then try to compute the votes, it is as a matter of fact no transversal majority anymore. * The point here is, we cannot have both. === longer election period with easy vote of no-confidence === == Muriel: == * Board members and other functionaries cannot be delegates at the same time == Anders == * Elections will take time in the area of one hour == Krishna: == * If elections are that cheap and restricted to that time no issue. But spending every other assembly only about electing ourselves is too expensive. ===== Your topic ===== ===== Miscellanea ===== ---- Type: I=Information, T=Todo, R=Resolution\\ Status: plank=not started/late, silver coin=in time, golden eye patch patch=done