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PPEU statutes working group meeting minutes

Location:  mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de:64738  
Channel:   International -> PPEU
Schedule:  19.06.2012   21:30 CEST
Minutes:   Everyone
Chairman:  Martina
Start:     21:40 CEST
End:       00:00 CEST
Next meet: In regular (new frequency)

Agenda

Administration
Architecture
Vision
Statutes
Aarau / measurement scenarios
Proposed draft statutes from Jack Allnutt
Miscellanea

Administration

Participants:

Klaas Mensaert klamens [at] gmail.com PP-BE
Julia Reda julia.reda [at] junge-piraten.de PP-DE
Krishna (Balaji Mohan) krishna [at] ppeu.net PP-DE
Steffen Ortmann (@ortsman; Steffen_TH; steffen.ortmann [at] piraten-thueringen.de) PPI, PP-DE, left early
Mattias Bjärnemalm mattias.bjarnemalm [at] europarl.europa.eu PPSE
Jack Allnutt (j.allnutt [at] pirateparty.org.uk @M2Ys4U) PPUK (as individual)
Stefan Thöni (stefan.thoeni [at] piratenpartei.ch) PP-CH
[Anders] [@andersch_be; pp-eu [at] andersch.be][PP-DE]
Martina Pöser (martina.poeser [at] bremen.piraten.de) PP-DE
Stephen Ogden (Azrael, s.ogden [at] pirateparty.org.uk) PP-UK (as individual)
Pascal Fouquet, PP-CH
Muriel (muriel [at] pirata.cat) PPCAT

Elect Keeper of the minutes

Candidates: Everyone

Elect chairman

Candidates: Krishna, Martina (both elected)

Approve last meeting's protocol

Protocol: http://wiki.ppeu.net/doku.php?id=statutes:minutes:minutes20120607 Comments (who): Approved

Approve today's agenda

Comments (who): Approved

Previous ToDos

Topic	What	Who	When	Status
Architecture / 1.3. Individual membership	separate structural and tools discussion in separate pads	robotica		plank
Aarau	So, what happened there?	is separate agenda item		golden eye patch

Architecture

Topic	What	Who
1.1 Party-Only model	https://eu.piratenpad.de/party-only-model	Steffen, Exception, Jack A, Stephen O
1.2 Hybrid Model	https://eu.piratenpad.de/hybrid-membership-model	Steffen, Justus, crackpille, Abri, Phi95Bou, Exception, Polnetz, Marin, Torben
	Download online	PP-CH
1.3. Individual membership (Permanent Assembly)	https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-individual-membership-model	Abri ¹⁾, robotica, dude, pakki

2 Members

2.1 Which Parties for full membership ? ²⁾	https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-parties	Marin, Exception, Steffen, Apophis, Exile	(silver coin)
2.2. Additional Memberships (better: Option for additional memberships)	https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-additional-membership	Marin, Steffen	(plank)
4. Country of Legal Personality? ³⁾	https://eu.piratenpad.de/place-to-found-ppeu	Sven, Marin	(plank)

Brussels proposed as seat and legal jurisdiction (Mattias)

5. Name of the Party	https://eu.piratenpad.de/name	Marin, Polnetz, dude
6. General Provisions	https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-general-provisions	Polnetz, Jack A, Luciana	(plank)
7. Different Models of Organs/Institutions of PPEU	https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-organs		(plank)

Vision

Topic	What	Who	When	Type

Statutes

https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-statutes-draft

Topic	What	Who	When	Type
statutes topics	We will collect items in the list below that the later statutes may / should cover.			R
Topics	Moved the collected topics with Aarau topics to https://eu.piratenpad.de/ppeu-statutes-draft	krishna

Aarau / Measurement scenarios

Aarau general feedback / report

Topic	What	Who
Minutes	http://piratenpad.de/p/pp-eu_pk12	julia
Personal report	http://andersch.be/node/8 (german)	anders
short report		Julia
Topics	PPEU either as association of individual parties + MEP, but without its own programme, or as actual party + MEP with own programme	julia

Discussion

In Aarau it was proposed to establish an automatic kill switch (AKS) to self destruct when EU election regulations change, and “at all costs”. That seemed excessive to non-participants.

Topic	What	Who	When	Type
AKS	Fear of to much bureaucracy. Pirates getting “comfortable” can be avoided by forcefully dissolving the PPEU (AKS).	julia
	such an architecture without any individual participation may be hard to sell to pirates	luna
	suggestive feedback from individual pirates at European level, not as binding programme decision	luna
	in case of too much bureaucracy or abuse pirates are going to revolt anyway, no need for automation	krishna
	Declaration of intent in the statutes to work towards individual membership and Pan-European elections.	luna
	actions for a scenario too far in the future with unknown circumstances should not be decided now	azrael
	let “our children” decide then and there	krishna
	rather have pirates unanimously undo the kill switch	julia
	safety against too much bureaucracy/abuse	julia
	what if the regulations are changed in a bad way (e.g. paneuro elections for already established parties - why kill our only chance by automation)? Shouldn't the reactions be decided then?
	have “them” follow us, not adjust to “them”, [remark: i.e. create GD not when the election system wants to, but we want to and are ready]	krishna
	AKS is not the only way to solve the problem that it addresses. Not necessarily required at this stage.			R
Voting systems	greens have weighted voting system according to their strengths in countries / MEPs	M2Ys4U
	suggestion: square root of total votes for the pirate party in the country / factor example: PP-DE get's 10% of 40 mio votes → 4 mio votes → 2.000 / factor example2: PP-LU get's 10% of 400 k votes → 40k votes → 200 / factor		Anders
	The voting system should encourage the parties to receive good results in elections to minimize the influence of inactive parties.	mad
	How to decide the vote is dependent on the tasks of the organisation. If the organisation is only coordinating, the one-party-one-vote-model and any other model would be unproblematic.	Krishna
	How to decide the vote is dependent of what to vote about. If the organisation is only coordinating, the one-party-one-vote-model and any other model would be unproblematic. For other decisions some sort of weighting may be required.	krishna
	fair, equal system or incentives for election results?	mab
Founding & seat	national law may influence restrictions on statutes	Jerry (?), Luna, Sven(?)		T
	find outsider lawyer for consulting		m2ys4u
	process: first outline the statutes, then check for suitable countries and check details	krishna
	the first and next step is to decide about goals / vision			R
Live meetings	financial support for foreign parties? Discuss via ML	ACT		T
	Election and PPEU can be dealt with seprately. No need for hastiness.	mab
	High media effect would be best for a just-in-time founding before the elections
	meetings every two months, not sooner			R
	no info about Strassbourg dates	krishna
	skip the august meeting			R
	Prague decl. approval postponed from last week's board meeting by the Swedish PP. After the Barcelona meeting there is no other board meeting before the national assembly of Swedish PP in November (only way would be to prepone the Sept. meeting.	mad

Proposed draft statutes from Jack Allnutt

* http://piratenpad.de/p/PPEU-Statutes-AllnuttWorking pad / proposal here:
* ML was notified: http://lists.pp-international.net/private/pp-eu/2012-June/001293.html

Topic	What	Who	When	Type
	structural input from Krishna useful	Jack
	individual participation missing	?
	maybe do not artificially limit ourselves to conditions made by others (e.g. EU competences). If we do that it is difficult to create change.	krishna
	“good job”, many bullets points useful, no major objections so far
	more than one statutes variant should be created to allow actual voting by the parties' bases	luna

Miscellanea

Topic	What	Who	Type
Schedule change in statutes group	Maybe if there are enough people in the statutes group we can decide to meet more often again ( not required for programme group). Ask Statutes group	ACT	golden eye patch
	no change		R
Founding meeting	Inform the parties about new founding meeting dates (plus other meeting dates?). Before that check with Justus Römeth about final dates for the Strassbourgh meeting.	ACT	golden eye patch
	check for meeting option 1st/2nd September in Barcelona → check with SE mad	muriel and krishna	T

Type: I=Information (default), T=Todo, R=Resolution
Status: plank=not started / late, silver coin=progressing in time, golden eye patch patch=done

¹⁾

No 2 and No 3 might correspond (almost in German law regarding juridical bodies, isn't it)

²⁾

influences, 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3

³⁾

May influence, how the party-structure can look at all

PPEU wiki

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